tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32085591.post452810395801438805..comments2023-11-07T21:12:19.852-06:00Comments on Wyrdsmiths: The Small, Wingless Man Hovered in the Corner, Unseen by the Boy and his Mothertate hallawayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06631759014508937940noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32085591.post-81788561263405474872007-11-13T12:01:00.000-06:002007-11-13T12:01:00.000-06:00Eagerly anticipating "Part 2", then!Eagerly anticipating "Part 2", then!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32085591.post-31498789687646718302007-11-12T18:34:00.000-06:002007-11-12T18:34:00.000-06:00So, I just looked at your post a little bit closer...So, I just looked at your post a little bit closer and I'm not sure we're talking about the same things at all. <BR/><BR/>First, as I said in my original post, different genres have different conventions. Which is why I didn't address horror at all, or lit-fic, or Western for that matter.<BR/><BR/>Second, I was very specifically addressing in-scene POV shifts. Multiple POVs that shift from chapter to chapter or scene to scene is a whole different animal as is multiple protagonists, both of which I want to address as a separate issue, which is why today's post was a "part 1."Kelly McCulloughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06399122960869198042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32085591.post-91506246280274896632007-11-12T17:56:00.000-06:002007-11-12T17:56:00.000-06:00I didn't say only BNAs can do this, just that the ...I didn't say only BNAs can do this, just that the rules are very different for them. In fact I started my original post with a note that good writing trumps all. Which it does. Do anything well enough and it will sell. On the other hand, jumping around between POVs in scene is going to make a tough task (selling a novel) harder.<BR/><BR/>As for Kay, he effectively started into the business with a significant advantage over the average new author. His work with Tolkien's Silmarillion had put him on the radar of every editor in the business. <BR/><BR/>Scott, in addition to being a damn fine writer also had some advantages not immediately available to the average first time author in terms of pulling this particular trick off-namely selling his entire series based on a small sample of writing from the beginning of the first book. I think he'd be the first to tell you that his case is not a good one from which to extrapolate industry standards.<BR/><BR/>Beyond that, I'm perfectly happy to stand by this earlier statement: <I>I personally have trouble with in-scene POV shifts. In my experience, jumps outside of a scene's established POV tend to be weaker writing.</I> I personally find MiGE to be one of the weakest of the Niven/Pournelle collaborations--that doesn't mean it's not a great book or that others shouldn't love it, just that I find it not entirely to my taste.Kelly McCulloughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06399122960869198042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32085591.post-35086321940437558962007-11-12T16:41:00.000-06:002007-11-12T16:41:00.000-06:00I'll accept that Niven & Pournelle were BNA's when...I'll accept that Niven & Pournelle were BNA's when they wrote <I>MiGE</I>, but Kay was only an up-and-comer with those books, and he did it (less well) in <I>The Fionavar Tapestry</I>, too.<BR/><BR/>And Scott Lynch did it last year.<BR/><BR/>Beyond which, I don't buy that BNA's are the only folks who can use alternate story-telling techniques; some of them were using these tricks when they were just getting started. Perhaps they just had to get them in front of the right editor on the right day.<BR/><BR/>I know that you are discussing in general writing basics, not Rules To Write By, but I think that this is a situation where the argument goes stale. Any technique can be used effectively, if it is understood sufficiently well by its weilder and if it is used in accordance with its nature. <I>Show, Don't Tell</I> works for the vast amjority of the time, but there are occasions when that doesn't hold up. I think the case is the same here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32085591.post-87306557830182007082007-11-12T16:28:00.000-06:002007-11-12T16:28:00.000-06:00Change the timing in this: but I am going to note ...Change the timing in this: <I>but I am going to note that there are certain sub-genres of SF/F--most notably alien encounter stories and high fantasy stories--where this sort of mid-scene shiftery is not only acceptable, but normal.</I> from is to was, and you'll be much closer to the situation as it stands. <BR/><BR/>These examples are from works that were written quite some time ago by writers who entered the field much longer ago then that. As I said, these things shift over time. Also, the folks in question are Big Name Authors (BNAs), and the rules are very different for BNAs than they are for the rest of us.Kelly McCulloughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06399122960869198042noreply@blogger.com